Hi all, very quickly,
Is it normal/reasonable for a care home to demand nine months payment in advance while a current resident (self-funding) is about to go through a Court of Protection application?
The justification is they fear they won’t receive payment while the application goes through.
Thanks
Stephen, you really must take control of the situation.
Tell the Care Quality Commission what this home are doing. We cannot give you any new advice.
This home is seriously ripping you off, because you are letting them!
Stephen - they are now coming up with yet another way to rip you off!
Of course they can’t have nine months fees up front. Outrageous. report them immediately.
better still, get your mum out that hellhole!
the manager is clearly one of lifes NBC (Natural Born Crooks!) - he’s dreaming up one scam after another to get your mum’s money.
Just refuse to pay. What’s he going to do? Evict your mum? (And if he does, best thing for her!)
start looking for a better care home straight away.
does this man own the home, by the way, or perhaps is part of the family that own the home? I can’t believe this is a ‘real company owned’ care home, as they are behaving so outrageously! sounds far more like ‘someone’ owns it, and it is their personal money making machine!
Please please report all this to the CQC.
Its a part of Purity Nursing Homes and at the moment I’m just terrified of the sound of my own phone going off. I just ignore it now because if I do answer he’ll demand on coming over for instant payment.
Despite this he still inundates me with calls and saw fit to turn up at my front door at 6:50PM last night, luckily I was hidden away in the back and ignored him.
Today I’ve phoned Occ Therapy with a view to getting Mum home and away from this man and left a message with our Social Worker to complain and see if others have concerns.
Deep down I’m a scaredy cat who hates confrontation, but when this Man has me scared to leave my own house, let alone visit my Mum…
Stephen
Court of Protection would most likely question you as to why you paid 9months upfront. So that’s an out and out blackmail in my humble opinion. Please forgive this thought, but should anything happen to your mother, would you get a refund. I have a feeling he would come up with another scamming reason.
Stephen - bullies smell fear in their victims!
it is Beyond outrageous that this man actually comes to your home.
Please make a list of all the thigns he’s said and done to you (take a photo of him at your door if he comes again). record all his phone calls.
Also, I would say this is harassment - ??? if so, that’s criminal.
I do understand about hating confrontation - I hated it too…but we HAVE to stand up for ourselves.
I finally learnt to do this when I changed jobs and ended up in a place run by ‘bullies’ and it was either stand up for myself or run away. I finally learn the former!
I would strongly urge you take some assertiveness classes - they will teach you techniques for dealing with bullies like this appalling man.
bullies don’t people who stand up for themselves!
The great thing about becoming assertive is that the more you do it the less frightening it is. This man’s anger and disapproval of you (ie, because you are not giving in to him and doing what he wants) will become less and less frightening - and more and more ‘outrageous’ in that you will simply get ANGRY with him.
anger is a WONDERFUL freedom for those of us who were raised never to ‘let anger out’ (With me, only my mum was ‘allowed’ to be angry!) - it’s incredibly liberating to just let rip and tell others what you think of them! The adrenaline rush gives you the ‘power’ to be angry. (Obvously, pick your targets - they must ‘desreve’ anger - as this dreadful man does)
Please don’t label yourself a ‘wimp’ - so many men do, but they aren’t, they are just ‘programmed’ never to show their ‘righteous anger’ at injustice.
Just complained to the CQC, more specifically about the individual rather than the home so will wait and see what happens.
I do appreciate everyone’s advice, maybe in a few years of dealing with this kind of thing I’ll be as hardcore as bowlingbun (that is meant as a compliment), I’d pay good money to see what would happen if he turned up on her doorstep unannounced.
From now on instead of tip toeing out of my room in fear of the beeping of my answer machine it will be my challenge to boldy press the delete button:-)
Stephen, my son (now 40) was brain damaged when he was born, undiagnosed for a long time, long story.
After being expelled from playgroup he went to a special needs playgroup. When they were trying to get him to do something he couldn’t/wouldn’t I was told by a member of staff that I just had to “toughen up”.
It really annoys me that this should be neccessary, because in an ideal world everyone in need should be treated properly and have the services they are entitled to without a fight.
Friday is the first day this week I’ve been left in silence. Maybe because I talked to Social Services and the CQC,
Is it OK to name and shame on here? I don’t want what is happening to me to go to some other poor family he can get his claws into?
I’m meeting a Social Worker at Mums home to discuss her future, he’ll no doubt be lurking in the background…In which case I will ask him to leave…
Stephen,
Is mum happy at the home? Who place her there?
The manager’s behaviour is beyond appalling, and is demanding so much money up front is “Financial Abuse” of a vulnerable person.
Make a formal complaint to Social Services and ask the social worker on Monday what she/he is going to do about it.
I am wondering if he has committed criminal offences.
Demanding money with menaces to start with!
Mum seems content at the home, she was placed there by the NHS after being in hospital for a few weeks, she does always tell me she wants to come home with me. To be fair, I have no complaints about the home, at least until this individual showed up in late December and started throwing his weight around.
The last contact was a text he sent me Thursday evening saying he had posted a letter by hand through my front door and asking me to call him, the post was simply a copy of the invoice for over £36,500 asking for payment up front until November, the terms state it has to be paid within seven days - not going to happen.
I need to remember theses quotes for when I do have to speak to him, “Financial Abuse of a Vulnerable Person” , is it also Discrimination against the elderly? Not to mention the fear and harassment he is causing me.
It so happens one of my taxi drivers who takes me back and forth is a lovely lady with over forty years experience in care homes and eventually palliative care before a drastic career change into the taxi business, her exact words when I said about him coming to my house demanding money echoed all your own “I’ve never heard of a nursing home manager acting like that in my entire life, that is disgusting”.
It’s just so nice to not feel alone and isolated as this bully obviously thinks I am and will get away with whatever he wants.
Thank you all:-)
Hi Stephen,
You do NOT have to deal with this alone.
CQC and the LA should be dealing with him now, not you.
Copy the invoice which he has sent to you - now giving you the clearest evidence possible - and send it to CQC and the LA.
Police also have responsibilities, as he is making threats with menaces. When a complaint of financial abuse is made, it should be dealt with by a team of people including the Police and LA.
Also ask the LA to arrange for an advocate for you, in accordance with the 2014 Care Act, as you are “having difficulty in making your voice heard”. I have one, because the LA decided it could ignore me!
It’s actually REALLY good that he’s put this in writing in an invoice - it’s your PROOF of his appalling behaviour. As BB says, photocopy it immediately (multiple times)( DO NO PART WITH THE ORIGINAL!), and show it to the CQC, your mum’s SW etc etc, and preferably to a solicitor.
Remember, what is he actually going to DO after seven days? He’ll send you ‘nasty reminders’ but ignore them. Keep paying the monthly bill (IS HE INVOICING YOU FOR THIS YET).
if you still don’t hve a contract, do not sign one, is my advice on the grounds that a contract is probably not what you want if you are trying to get your mum OUT of there.
The whole thing is insanely appalling - NO ONE EVER E VER EVER pays out nine months in advance. he seems completely insane.
I do urge you to go to a solicitor about this, and let them take over all correspondence and communication with the home and this appalling man.
Mum is actually fully paid up until the end of February, so in theory he is actually demanding ten months in advance until the end of November.
The only invoices I’ve received at home are the recorded delivery nine month invoice and the duplicate he posted through.
The two others, he e-mailed me the day he demanded “same day payment” while on his way to my house and the one he handed to me while visiting Mum the day after I refused to let him come to my house at 10:30PM.
As stated I’ve reported this to the CQC and Mum’s Social Worker is calling me today so it will be interesting to see what she thinks of him, whether I’ve just been singled out as a weak point or if he is doing this to other family members…I’ll certainly be taking copies of his letter and invoice to my meeting with her on Tuesday and mentioning two unsolicited visits and over 80 missed calls in just five weeks…
Then maybe if nothing happens I will call my solicitor.
Good, that sounds positive.
I know complaining is never nice, but I always feel that when I speak up on behalf of my son with learning difficulties, I am also speaking up for his friends in a similar situation who might not have parents alive to stand up for them.
You may also be helping other elderly residents and their relatives by making your complaint. Well done.
Emails are fine - they are ‘actionable’ as in they can’t be deleted - they are all stored on servers ‘up there’ somewhere by the email company. that said, make sure you keep them all, and ideally print them out.
the very idea of ‘same day payement’ is absurd as well. I honestly don’t know where this man is coming from.
Glad the SW etc is now involved.
Didn’t get to speak to the SW today, she was supposed to be returning my call from Friday and the couple of times I rang her today, no reply.
She’s supposed to be doing Mum’s mental capacity check at 11am on Tues morning so I’ll be there even though I don’t know if it’s going ahead. Of course I also desperately want to talk to the SW about what is going on with the home and it’s manager.
Back to being negative (sorry), but of course HE’LL be there with his smile and charm and I’m worried nobody will believe me, I have the invoice and letter. My own Sister called me delusional when I tried to tell her how he was acting, he has her eating out of his hands and when I told her about the £36,500 invoice, rather than be annoyed she wanted to know if Mum could afford it.
Stephen,
Your sister clearly doesn’t understand what is going on. The facts speak for themselves.
I would suggest that you speak to the SW alone, and then get her to deal with the invoice issue.